P3D PSA Judging

["Andrea & Scott Blair" <asblair@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

>>>>Derek Gee: Andrea, I do not know if you are a PSA member or how long 
you have been involved in stereo, but it is not appropriate for "newbie" 
judges to be used at a PSA International Exhibition. <snip> Öit is often 
a difficult job to select the winners from such an excellent field of 
entries. Experienced judges know how to make the critical distinctions 
between first and second place entries in a field crowded with 
distinction. Also, entrants need to be assured that their work will be 
judged by people qualified to do so.<<<<

One would assume that a PSA Exhibition Chairperson would be a PSA 
member, but to clarify this - yes, I am a PSA member of about 4 years. 
About as long as I have been doing stereo photography. I am also a 3 
star stereo competitor and have judged a PSA exhibition. Who deems it 
"inappropriate" for new judges to be on the exhibition judging panel? 
You? The DSS? PSA? Where are these rules printed? As Exhibition 
Chairperson, I must have set of them immediately, lest I commit another 
"fox paw." {;>)  Why is it so difficult for someone to express their 
opinion as an experienced [stereographer, photographer, artist] when 
judging? I have yet to meet a judge, experienced or not (by the way, 
define "experienced"), who has a problem with this. If they did, I would 
guess that they would not be judging. What are the "critical 
distinctions" that separates first from second? In my experience (add 
over 20 years of 2D photography experience here), by the time it gets to 
this point, it is a matter of personal preference; and with a panel of 
judges, this is where a discussion starts on the merits and drawbacks to 
each image. What is the magic number of club competition judgings before 
you will allow a person to "advance" to judge your (DSS) PSA Exhibition? 
Who has determined this number? Or if it is "qualifications" you are 
looking for, what are the determining factors? In other words, what are 
you looking for in a judge before they can judge your exhibition? 

>>>>Derek Gee: At the DSS, we like new ideas, we just don't believe that 
a prestigious International Salon is the place to be debating them. 
These things need to be decided well ahead of time.<<<<

>>George Themelis: What does that mean? What debate? Judging is not a 
science or we would have computers doing it. It is a matter of personal 
interpretation. A "new" judge brings his or her own point of view, which 
can be a big plus for the survival and development of PSA.<<

>>>>Derek Gee: What I was trying to convey by my remarks is that if you 
have "new ideas" (e.g. changes to procedures or standards/requirements), 
you should not be deciding these during a Salon judging. While judging 
is not an exact science, there are a number of reference articles from 
which you can begin to learn how to fairly judge a photo competition. 
Anyone can make judgements - we all do it everyday. It is learning how 
to fairly and consistantly apply your judgements to each entrant that 
makes an experienced judge stand out from an inexperienced one.<<<<

What "things"? And what is to be debated? How can you discuss a "new 
idea" ahead of time? This doesn't make sense. Are you saying that you 
debate ahead of time what constitutes a "new idea" and decide what will 
and will not be "acceptable." I don't understand what you are trying to 
say here. Why is a "new idea" a "change to procedures or 
standards/requirements." How can a fresh perspective change a procedure? 
I would rather have judges who can think for themselves and make well 
presented arguments (when required) for or against an image than a group 
of people purely quoting from an instruction book. I want opinions. If I 
had a panel that consistently judged the same, I would start to worry. I 
can see the more outstanding images being scored fairly consistently, 
but all of them? IMO, a stereo judge should first recognize the stereo 
effect. Then as a photographer/artist, know the basic rules of 
composition, lighting, etc. Last, the personal preference comes in. It 
has to. Art is subjectional and in any competition you are hoping to not 
only meet the technical aspects but to appeal to a judge's personal 
interest.

>>>>Derek Gee: Since you didn't indicate how much Boris judged in your 
club this year prior to judging your Exhibition, it is hard for me to 
comment. If he had judged a few competitions prior and done well, then 
you had no cause for concern. If this was his very first judging ever, 
then I believe you need to rethink your policy for the reasons outlined 
above. George was questioned by Bill Turner because he had only judged 
one competition at the DSS ever, and after thinking about it, George 
agreed that he was inexperienced.<<<<

>>George Themelis: I am inexperienced in the sense that I have never 
judged an International PSA Salon, but in addition to the one DSS 
competition I have judged all the Ohio Stereo Photographic Society 
competitions last year and have participated for 5 years in the DSS 
competitions and have been entering PSA Salons for 4 years now. If I 
ever wanted to judge a PSA Salon I have to start from somewhere. I 
thought that Detroit was a good place to start because it is the closest 
to Cleveland and I can easily drive there back and forth in one day. 
What experiences would make me qualified enough to judge my first PSA 
Salon? More club judging is really not an option for an active 
participant in club competitions.<<

>>Carole H: If I were on a salon committee I think Dr. T would be my 
first choice for a judge because of his 3D experience, his background of 
club judging, PSA circuits, his many acceptances in the PSA Stereo 
Division exhibitions, and more recently the examples of his work on the 
SD Gallery linked to the PSA website.<<

Boris is not a member of PSSP and has not judged for our club. As a 
matter of fact, I don't know if he has judged at all previously. I had 
every confidence in Boris, both as a stereographer and an artist, to be 
a competent judge in our exhibition. As I stated in my previous posting, 
I would encourage anyone interested in judging a PSA exhibition to help 
with, or at least watch, a judging first. But, this would not (nor has 
it) stopped me from inviting any individual I felt confident in to 
judge.

In my opinion, George may be "inexperienced" in the sense that he has 
not judged a PSA exhibition before. Beyond that, he is one of the most 
experienced stereographers I know, especially in the technical sense. He 
is a PSA stereo 3 star competitor, club judge, a technical writer, a 3D 
camera repairman, and a photo hobbyist with many years experience. What 
more do you want? If I need a replacement for judges in 1999, George 
will be the first person I contact; but he will definitely be invited to 
judge the 2000 Potomac International.

>>Boris Starosta: To my surprise, I had no trouble with making the 
"critical distinctions between first and second place entries in a field 
crowded with distinction." My biggest problem was with being in almost 
complete disagreement with my fellow judges on what I thought were some 
of the most creative stereo views.<<

>>>>Derek Gee (responding to Boris' post): My first reaction to your 
comment is, "Are you so sure you had no problem making distinctions?" 
It's impossible without seeing the slides you were discussing for me to 
agree or disagree with your views, but if two other judges were so 
different from your scores it makes me wonder why? Did the other judges 
explain to you why they felt the way the did? If the judges were using 
similar criteria for scoring, it is unusual for the scores between 
judges to differ by a point or two.<<<<

I would like to point out that Boris was not always the "odd man out" in 
the judging. He was often scoring the same as one of our other very 
experienced judges, while the third judge was way off. That means that 
most of the time one judge was voting inconsistently with the other two. 
Since the other two were veteran PSA exhibition judges, I would be 
interested to hear your opinion on this, Derek. Should we send our 
veteran judges back to PSA judging school since they disagreed?

>>>>Derek: Do you see a lot of poorly mounted and psuedoscopic images at 
your exhibition? <snip>Öif you are unable to consistantly mount your 
slides correctly, you should not be entering International 
competitions.<<<<

Fortunately, we do not see a lot of mismounted slides or other errors, 
but it is educational to watch an entire exhibition and see these types 
of errors. There was a decrease in mounting errors this year and we hope 
this continues to decline. Unfortunately, since there are no comments in 
exhibitions, the guilty parties may never realize they are rejected for 
these reasons. Some people do not have a projector to test their slides 
and others do not have a club they can go to for critique and help. And 
still others do not subscribe to P3D. {8>O  More information on the 
Internet will help. I hope to include some mounting tips and resources 
in the next exhibition catalog. That way the information is getting to 
the ones who need it.

Personally, I just enjoy spending a whole day looking at stereo images. 
I can see what my fellow stereographers and friends from around the 
world are doing and get ideas for my own projects. This year the Potomac 
had 70 entrants - 280 slides. What a great day! Then we looked at cards 
all afternoon (Chesapeake International). 

>>Boris Starosta: I believe it is to the credit of the PSSP, that they 
will take the chance on an inexperienced judge - in this way furthering 
the rejuvenation of this venerable art of stereo photography.<<

Thank you, Boris.

>>Mark Dottle: Until the traditional school accepts the enthusiastic, 
innovative and fresh ideas that new stereo photographers can offer...the 
newcomer will just continue to do what they do best with regard to 
stereo photography, and others will adopt their ideas and read their 
books someday. :-) Let others judge...please!<<

And unless we keep insisting on the acceptance of the new, the creative, 
the different, we won't stand a chance at changing "the old school." 
When we have the opportunity to make a difference (such as PSA 
exhibition judging), we need to take it. Otherwise, we'll be stuck in 
the same old rut, complaining about the same old stuff, over and over. 
This is our chance to help PSA grow.

>>Mark Dottle: Those of you who are excellent stereo photographers like 
Dr.T and many others...keep shooting. Evaluate the reasons for wanting 
to be a judge. Why? Spend the time creating new images that we admire! 
Why judge the work of others? Let us continue to see your work!!<<

Some people enjoy competition! Competition is present everywhere, and 
the arts are no exception. Unfortunately, a somewhat uneven perspective 
is often put forward in clubs; as if it were the only activity 
worthwhile. There are those (perhaps you , Mark?) who prefer to unleash 
their creativity and share their images instead of sweating it every 
month and wondering if you put in something that will "appeal" to 
someone else. Good for you! There needs to be a balance between the 
creativity and the competitiveness. But, just because one competes or 
judges doesn't necessarily mean they will stop creating images and 
sharing their experience. Rest assured if Dr. T. starts judging PSA 
exhibitions, he won't stop shooting new images (especially with that new 
fancy camera!). 

Overview:

Derek's comments are far from original, i.e., I have heard them in 
various forms from other followers of the "old school." It was briefly 
discussed earlier this year in P3D about dragging PSA into the present. 
The responses were unfortunately, but not surprisingly, negative. It 
seems that a lot of people feel that PSA is not open to new ideas, 
change, or anything else that challenges what appears to be set in stone 
somewhere. How sad that the newcomers to this organization must continue 
to fight to have any amount of change incorporated. I joined PSA to 
participate in the excellent activities and services provided. I hold an 
office, run an activity, and started a local chapter to make a 
difference.

Andrea S. Blair
asblair@xxxxxxxxxxx


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