Re: Kodak HIE film in a 120 format?

[George L Smyth <GLSmyth@xxxxxxx>]

Theo Benson wrote:
> 
> > I
> > think that you'll need to explain how films that do not record infrared
> > radiation might be considered infrared films.
>         [Theo Benson]  It's called marketing.

No, that would be called intentional deception.  Do you think that Konica is
intentionally deceiving everyone by calling their product Konica Infrared 750?

> > Konica IR records infrared radiation, thus it is an infrared film.
>         [Theo Benson]  And by that definition, so is Kodak Royal Gold 100,
> Fujicolor, Agfa HDC, and any other film that has even a remote sensitivity
> to near infrared.or infrared light.

Okay, let's try this again.  Infrared raditation begins at 700nm (see the IR
FAQ).  Konica Infrared 750 shows spectral sensitivity from 640nm-820nm.  This
means that it records what we refer to as "infrared radiation" between
700-820nm.

Kodak Royal Gold 100's cyan-forming layer records list between 550-680nm.  As
this does not extend beyond 700nm, it cannot record infrared radiation, thus we
do not call it an infrared film (nobody does).

Agfa HDC 100 plus's cyan-forming layer records list between 560-680nm.  As this
does not extend beyond 700nm, it cannot record infrared radiation, thus we do
not call it an infrared film (nobody does).

> > Infrared
> > The fact that the film is useless to YOU has no bearing on
> > whether or not it is an infrared film.
>         [Theo Benson]  Well, if I'm trying to capture light beyond 800 with
> good sensitivity, it does.

No, it has a bearing on whether or nor the film is suitable to your needs.  A
film is not determined to be an "infrared film" dependant upon your use of it.

> > To answer your final question, Konica IR can be loaded in subdued light
> > because,
> > unlike Kodak HIE/HSI, it has an antihalation layer that prevents light
> > piping.
> > This has nothing to do with its sensitization.
> > [Theo Benson]   Oh, so the
> > felt light trap has nothing to do with it. Thank you so much for
> > clarifying this for me...

Let's see what I responded to:

- - [Theo Benson]  Even Konica eventually admitted
- - to me that their IR film wasn't really. If it was, then how could you load
- - 35mm canisters in the same subdued light that obliterates Kodak HIE?

Apparently, you were under the impression that the necessity of loading in the
dark was an indication of a film's ability to record infrared radiation.  This
is not correct.

The felt trap indeed is not IR opaque.  However, as Konica Infrared 750 has an
antihalation layer, this prevents light piping into the cassette and through the
film.  You might lose a frame or two with Konica Infrared due to the felt trap,
but these are the frames that you spool onto the reel within the camera. 
Indeed, I believe that if you load Konica Infrared in bright sunlight with the
trap facing the sun you will certainly obtain a certain amount of fogging.

> > If you wish to make the claim that Konica's infrared film does not extend
> > as far
> > into the infrared spectrum as Kodak's film, I don't think that anyone will
> > disagree (after all, this is fact).  But to ignore fact obviates
> > meaningful discussion.
>         [Theo Benson]  Well, George, so does starting replies with "WRONG"
> as you have. I don't pretend to be an expert on any film. I've only being
> shooting professionally for over 20 years. But I choose not to make this
> discussion personal. You have your opinion, and I have mine.

Were this an opinionated discussion I would not have told you that you were
wrong, I would have told you that I disagreed (see the numerous posts I have
made to the list to confirm this).  Konica Infrared 750 is, by definition, an
infrared film.  This is not an opinion, it is a fact.

george

- -- 

Handmade Photographic Images
http://www2.ari.net/glsmyth/
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End of Infrared-Digest V0 #722
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