Re: Inkjet printers

["John M. Morgan" <jmrpress@xxxxxxx>]

There is an excellent discussion group with lots of information on Epson
printers and issues about archival inks.  There have been many messages
to the effect that so far, any "archival" ink is less archival in a six
color printer than in a 4 color printer.

The link is:

http://www.egroups.com/group/epson-inkjet/?isDecendingSort=0&searchStart=27119&isThreaded=0&fetchForward=1&start=27118

Some links for ink sources:
http://www.missupply.com/store.cgi?cart_id=2896740.818&page=index_test6.html

http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/index.html
http://www.tssphoto.com/sp/dg/archival_inks.html#fotonic

Some comments from the discussions:
I got in some more paper samples to try with the MIS archival inks and
thought I would post my results for the rest of you.


Works:
1)  Lysonic Photo Matte paper
Previously, I had tested the Luminos Soft Suede and had been informed
that
the Lysonic Photo Matte paper was the same paper.  That turns out to be
true.  Now that I have both papers, they appear to be identical and they

both work well with the MIS archival inks (and the Lysonic Photo Matte
paper
is significantly cheaper than the Luminos Soft Suede).  Bleeding is very

minimal and the colors stand out well.
2)  Digital Art Supplies Photo Matte 170 (www.digitalartsupplies.com)
Hmm, this paper looks suspiciously like the Lysonic Photo Matte paper in

appearance, feel, and performance.  It works as well as the Lysonic
Photo
Matte paper.  It is a little bit cheaper than the Lysonic Photo Matte
paper,
but is currently undergoing archival testing with Wilheim so I dont know
how
archival it is.  Although based on a brief conversation with Digital
Arts
Supplies, I am betting that this is again just the Lysonic Photo Matte
paper
being shipped under a different name.


Fails:
1)  Red River Paper 38# Frio Gloss (www.redriverpaper.com)
After letting it dry for over 24 hours, the ink can still be partially
rubbed off.  So, this paper will not work with the MIS archival inks.
2)  Digital Art Supplies Professional Photo Gloss 264
(www.digitalartsupplies.com).
Wow!  This paper has probably the brightest and most intense colors that
I
have ever seen on a glossy paper.  Very, very impressive paper.
Unfortunately, it came out of my printer with the ink still wet.  The
ink
(especially the black) bled quite heavily and after 24 hours, the ink
can
still be partially rubbed off.  A major disappointment since the colors
looked so impressive.  I will have a friend try this paper out with the
Epson OEM inks and see how it works.
3)  Digital Art Supplies Photo Glossy 180 (www.digitalartsupplies.com).
Again, another glossy paper that has ink that will not dry and can still
be
rubbed off.  The black also tended to have a funny dotted pattern to it
instead of being a nice solid black.


So, at this point, I still do not have an archival Glossy paper that
works
with the MIS archival inks.  If anyone has any suggestions of an
archival
Glossy paper to try, just send me an email.

--
Brad Suinn (suin-@xxxxxxxxx)




Yes, I love the MIS color archival ink - it's making very beautiful
prints with
Concorde Rag on my EX. I want to try the Lysonic, but have two more
cartridges
of the MIS and two more packages of the Concorde Rag, and it's against
my
nature not to use it all up!

Barbara

(8-14-99)


Barbara wrote:
>So far the MIS inks have NOT clogged anything. No complaints here.
>

No clogs here either; 2nd refill of carts on my 3000...

David
-



I have also been running some informal fading tests on a few papers.
Results to
date below:

These tests started on June 14 of this year and at this time have been
running
60 days. I printind images on several types of paper  with Epson inks
and MIS
archival inks. The images were cut in half with one side placed in a
drawer away
from light and the other half placed in a south facing window.  The
images were
taped to the glass and get quite warm in the afternoon sun.  It has been
very
humid for the last two months in this area as well.

Epson Photo Paper:

With Epson Inks this paper showed noticeable fading in 5 days and at 60
days the
image is almost tatally gone. Even the black background has faded to a
light
grey. Another 60 days and it will probably have faded to white paper
again.

With MIS archival inks the paper started to show yellowing at 30 days
and the
blacks show a little fading. At 60 days the paper has continued to
yellow but
the black fading does not seem to have changed much. There is a little
fading of
the magenta inks. Overall the image has survived quite well at 60 days.
The
fading is only noticeable if compared with the original image.  Hanging
on a
wall the average viewer would not notice a problem.

MIS  GP-170

With MIS archival inks this paper has survived reasonably well at 60
days.Compared to the protected half it shows an overall loss of magenta,
but
there have not been any large shifts of color. Again the blacks show the
most
fading.

MIS CS-8511

With Mis archival inks this paper has survived remakably well
considering that
it is not an archival paper.

Again it is the magenta and black that have been affected the most, but
it just
beginning to be noticed at 60 days. On the wall it would never be
noticed at
all.


Conclusions:

If we assume a two year life on the wall as suggested by formal testing
for
Epson ink and Photo Paper it may be safe to extrapolate a life for these
papers
based on their respective results in sunlight, heat and humidity as
experienced
in a South facing window.

Epson shows fading in 5 days, therefore CS-8511 with a fade of 60 days
should
last 12 times as long hanging on an interior wall. That's 24 years with
archival
ink..

The GP 170 started to show fading in 10 days suggesting it is good for
about 4
years with the archival ink.

The Epson Photo paper started to show fading in about 30 days suggesting
about12
years with archival ink.

The varying results on these papers suggests that as reported by others
the
paper has a major bearing on the life of even pigmented archival inks.

Based on these informal tests I would be happy to use Epson Photo paper
and MIS
CS-8511 for many of my printing needs. 12 to 24 years hanging on a wall
is
plenty for most of the prints we make.

For those prints requiring more longevity and a more arty look,
watercolor
papers such as Concorde Rag and others will certainly dothe job.

> If you have first hand experience in running archival ink in your
3000, would
> you be kind enough to rate the ink properties (1=worst, 10=best) for:
> color stability (e.i., non-fading)
> color gamut (vs. Epson OEM inks)
> water resistance (please state paper, if relevant)
> non-clogging
> cost or value (supplier names may be relevantand their service, too)
> Any other comments would be welcome! Thanks for sharing the
information,
> Mitch


I've run the following inks through 2 Epson 3000 printers.  Lysonic E,
MIS,
Fotoic, Luminos Silver, and Luminos Platinum.

Color Stability:
MIS=10
Lysonic E=9
Luminos Platinum=9
Luminos Silver=5
Fotonic=5
OEM=1

Color Gamut vs OEM (Epson ink)
OEM=10
Luminos Silver=9
Fotonic=9
MIS=7
Lysonic=1
Luminos Platinum=1


Water Resistance
MIS=10
OEM=3
Luminos SIlver=1  (although waterproof on Luminos GalleryGloss)
Luminos Platinum=1  (although waterproof on Luminos GalleryGloss)
Lysonic=1  (although waterproof on Luminos GalleryGloss)
Fotonic=1  (although waterproof on Luminos GalleryGloss)

Clogging
Luminos Silver=10
Fotonic=10
Lysonic=10
Luminos Platinum=10
OEM=8
MIS=1


Printability (Bleeding)
Luminos Silver=10
Fotonic=10
Lysonic=10
Luminos Platinum=10
OEM=10
MIS=1


Printability (puddling)
Luminos Silver=10
Fotonic=10
Lysonic=10
Luminos Platinum=10
OEM=10
MIS=1


I think that the best all-around performer is Luminos Silver right now
on
the Luminos Papers. Matches the OEM very well and with moderate
longevity.
The worst printing inks are the MIS with crossover, bleeding and
puddling in
dense areas- yet they stand up well to light in a practical manner
(setting
in a window). However, longevity tests are really geared towards how the

inks react together and MIS has not subjected their inks to Wilhelm as
we
know yet. The Lysonic formulation was tested via other printers than
Epson,
and the Epson data will be released any day now. What ever you decide,
use
our profiles to make life easier.

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

Jon Cone
http://www.inkjetmall.com
http://www.cone-editions.com/workshops

Title: epson-inkjet messages 27118-27131 of 27343

Epson-Inkjet

 

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