My Reply

[P3D <PVexation@xxxxxxx>]

I'm sorry that I haven't been keeping up with the list.  I would like to make
a 
few comments on some past listings. Excuse my spelling. My spell check is 
on the blink.

>I suspect the reason nobody has talked about disqualifying Macro Realist
>or tabletop slides is because they're STILL photography. They are carefully
>thought out photos where the lighting, focus, and exposure are done by the
>maker.  Computer work is a completely different animal.  There is a graphic
>art aspect to Stan White's work, but in the end they are photos.
>Derek Gee
Derek, sorry to hear that you feel this way.  But... you are wrong.  If some
one
is using a solid modeling program the maker has to carefully think out thier
photos, where the lighting is, how intense the lighting is, where the shadows

will cast, how the textures and surfaces of the subjet(s) will react to the
lights,
what color the lights are or should be,exposure, just not focus. or where to
set
the f-stop.  Then again I don't worry about f-stop with my T-70 either. I
just set it
on A for Auto.  On my brothers new Cannon, he doesn't have to worry about
focus
either.  Mabe I should use a camera. I would have less to consider. I know
that you 
have seen some of my work that was over and some  that was under exposed.  
These solid modeling programs are designed so that it takes all of the skill
of a 
good Table Top photographer plus a designer to produce  an image. If they
didn't
take these kind of skills to use,  than no one would want them. They would no

longer be graphic tools, just graphic toys / games.

>The ability to manipulate images with computer software is certainly a
>talent in it's own right, but does not necessarily reflect one's skill
>as a photographer. I work with any number of people who are fantastic
>photoshop practicioners and who do excellent composition/design work
>using photographic images, but these folks are hardly photographers.
>They could not take or art direct a proper shoot with a gun at their
>heads.
>Likewise, there are many talented photographers out there who need to
>rely on the skills of the software people to get there photos enhanced
>or manipulated to where they need to be.
>Are there people who can do both? Sure. Can they do both equally well?
>Not that I've come across.
>Eric Goldstein  
Eric, read what I had to say to Derek  Please continue to read on I think
you should also hear what I have to say to B. Schlueter and Ronald Beck. 

>If more *traditional* photographers could just open up a little and try
>this medium, they would be as taken with it as those of us currently using
>it.
>"To take photographs is to hold one's breath when all faculties converge in
>the face of fleeting reality. It is at that moment that mastering an image
>becomes a great physical and intellectual joy."
>                                      Henri Cartier-Bresson
>B. Schlueter 
I believe that you are right on target.  Having a background in traditional
graphic arts with plenty of dark room experence (don't ask me to do it now
that was 15 years ago) Photo Shop is a nice medium substitute for a dark
room and a 3-D modeling program is a nice Table Top studio that takes up
less room in my basement. 
Concerning Henri Cartier-Bresson's quote:I can relate to every word when 
creating my images." its just hard to hold my breath that long"

>It just seems that computer enhanced imaging is an extension of the 
>photographer's capabilites.  Not everyone has it just as not everyone has 
>a darkroom.
>Ronald J Beck 
Not only does everyone not have a dark room, I wouldn't recomend that any
one invest in one.  I know there are those who enjoy working in the dark 
room and traditionalist who believe that if the dark room was good enough
for yesterday that it will be good enough for tomorrow.  If one invest in a
dark
room today he may be investing in Photo Shop tomorrow. ( I learned my 
lesson with a BETA video system )

        It's rather distressing to read all of the negitive postings.  I never knew 
that people were complaining about my competing, with computer stuff, 
at the DSS.  I enjoy entering and I get more images that score poor than
well.  
( In fact I've faired better at international contests placing 4 of 5 images
that I
 have entered).I get four or five people every month who ask about how I do 
them.  They seem interested.  When I turn around do they mumble " there gos 
the neighborhood."? (I really don't believe this)
        Predudice always stems from ignorance.  I beleive that if, these people
 who think that it's not a direct relation to Table Top photography only
learned,
 a little, about it before passing judgement, thier opinions would differ.
        I'm not mad just disapointed. I'll start educating with Dr. T, if he's 
willing.  Derek, if you would like to enlighten your knowledge, I will be
honored
to show you everything that I have to consider when I make a picture.  Then
you
can make an educated assesment of the difference between Table Top 
photography and 3-D photographic rendering.  Mabe I should do a demonstration
for the DSS on how I do what I do?  Then they could make a responsible
decision, if I should compete or just exibit.  I would loose alot from not
being 
judged with everyone else. It's hard to judge your own work. ( Derek, will I
have
sit in the back of the theater this month?)
        George (Dr. T), I am serious.  Take me up on my offer.  I value your
opinions.  We'll have to do it on John Vala's system. On my system we would 
never be able to complete a pair of images, in 8 to 10 hours.  (John Vala has
all
of the same programs that I have and we share knoledge.  For some reason he 
has never presented computer generated images.)  I wouldn't want the speed of
my 6+ year old system to get in the way of completing your first computer
generated stereo pair.  
        What you need to do now ,is decide what you would like to create for
 your subject matter.  Remember that everything is created by subtracting and

adding to and from Primitives.  Primitives are cubes, cylinders, spheres, 
planes, and cones.  Draw me a rough skech and bring it to the next 
DSS meeting.  We'll talk about where the lighting should be placed (normally 
I use three lights) and what kind of textures and colors that your objects
will 
have.   Keep in mind that the more reflections and shadows that you want in 
your composition will lengthen your time to render (shutter speed). I need to

know what you want to do ahead of time,  so that I can preplan, how to sculpt

the subject matter and determine if we can even complete it in our time
frame.  
We need to make sure we make this an event to remember not a dissapointment.
 
        Last but not least you need to decide what kind of photo shoot and dark 
room experiance that your going to take me on. (I feel like I won a photo
shoot 
with Dr. T contest)  Because I'm planning on taking you up on your offer to 
teach me to use my realist.  In fact, I'm going t take my realist down to
Dave's 
Camera Shop, for a tuneup, this week, to prepare for the event.  

Just Trying to Fit-in
Virtual Stereographer, Bill Battle DSS ( and proud to be associated )
PVexation@xxxxxxx


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