P3D Re: web stuff

[Larry Berlin <lberlin@xxxxxxxxx>]

>Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 
>From: siragusa@xxxxxxxx
>...................
>> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:48:51 -0800
>> From: Larry Berlin <lberlin@xxxxxxxxx>
>> 
>> People, PLEASE, *don't* use embed tags with your JPS images. 
>> It prevents all
>> but one brand of access technology for your images, making 
>> your website
>> unfriendly to many of us who would like to visit and see your 
>> images. The
>> MUCH better solution is to notify your ISP that you intend to 
>> use JPS images.................


>How does linking directly to a JPS file provide for more 
>than one "access technology"?  True, you can't directly
>download any EMBEDed file unless you have a compatible
>plugin or you are savvy enough to view the source and
>download it yourself.  

******  It would seem you answered your own question. People using other
technologies (Mac, or other platforms, or 3D-Pix as a software Plug-in, or
persons using Win9x without a plug-in of any kind) have a major hassle in
getting to *embedded* image files (only VRex has chosen to promote the use
of the embed tag). How does a direct link help? By making the JPS images
available to anyone, of course!!!!!!!!!!!! It allows the visitor to ignore
the embed tag nonsense and download the file directly and without having to
study a technical book first. Without such a link, AND the correct mime type
on the server, the embedded stereo images are NOT accessible at all outside
of DC.


>I propose that people who are 
>concerned about this EMBED their images as well as 
>providing a direct link to the image (perhaps a separate 
>page that contains links to all of your images).  This 
>gives you the benefit of both worlds.

*****   This doesn't work unless the user has the correct MIME type known on
their server. It IS ideal to have the best of both worlds and *that was a
key part of my message.* The MIME information is NOT generally provided to
users of VRex products or of DC and it seems deliberately so to encourage a
blissful ignorance on the part of the users. Since *embedding* prevents the
display of JPS images and attempts to link to VRex  even when other plug-ins
exist and are already installed, there must be a not-so-covert advertising
purpose here.


>...................
>> The ONLY benefit to using the embed tag is that you don't 
>> have to talk to
>> your ISP, but it creates major problems for many visitors and does NO
>> benefit for stereo to the internet in the long term. In 
>> addition, the embed
>> tag is problematical for many reasons having nothing to do 
>> with stereo images.
>> 
>
>That is not the only benefit...
>
>1.  There are problems with certain version of MSIE.  Plugins
>    do not get properly activated or get passed not quite 
>    correct parameters when they access the files directly.
>    I can remember exactly what versions this happens with.

******  Then it's time to upgrade the browser it seems. A browser that
doesn't work correctly is always a problem. IE has a deep history of such
problems.


>
>2.  The EMBED tag gives you so much more flexibility.  For 
>    starters, you can include more than one stereo image on
>    your web page at a time.  
>    For example, go to Larry's
>    page: http://3dzine.simplenet.com/.  Larry has an 
>    interesting concept of making his entire page 3D (crosseye
>    or parallel).  This could just as easily be embedded JPS
>    files. 

*****  I have many pages with many more than one image on the page at a
time, and I have ZERO embed tags anywhere. With the embed tag used as you
suggest, no one except DC provisioned folk would be able to view anything at
all on my website. They would get NO backgrounds, NO thumbnails to view, NO
images to download, JUST A BLANK PAGE WITH A LINK TO VRex.  That's NOT more
flexible. That is a significant and major limitation and a big-time hassle.

At best your solution is only available to Win9x machines using DC. 


>     In DepthCharge (and I think the other plugins)  
>    you can set your InBrowser (meaning the embedded view) to
>    be crosseye, parallel, anaglyph, etc (it defaults to a 
>    mono view).  But my point is that this page can use JPS
>    files and benefit (it wouldn't need the "parallel view"
>    link at the top of the page, it could support anaglyph,
>    shutter glasses, etc).  

******  None of this is available outside Win9x....  Other plug-ins do not
recognize or use the embed tag, so if your JPS images are embedded, the ONLY
plug-in that works is DC and it doesn't matter what type of initial view
you've specified in your preferences. Worse yet, your silly embed tags are
unable to recognize that I have a valid plug-in already installed in my
browser ready and waiting for a JPS image, yet the images become unavailable
BECAUSE OF your embed tag and for no other reason.. I get a link to VRex
instead of images. That is FAR FROM ANY NOTION OF FLEXIBILITY!!!!!!!! 


>
>    You can also have text and other graphics around your 3D 
>    image.  This, in my opinion is a big advantage. 

******  What good is text arranged around an image that is unavailable. That
makes the text moot and the page irritating and if using a different
plug-in, confusing too. The task is more easily and universally done with
ordinary HTML since it's easier to do with greater flexibility and easier
implementation, and the results are accessible to ANYONE, not just Win9x/DC
equipped visitors. There is nothing at all flexible about the embed tag
where viewing JPS images is concerned. I don't care what else it might be
able to do under other circumstances.



>    http://freespace.virgin.net/dimension.three/  Is an
>    excellent example of this.  Note that you do not need
>    a JPS viewer to see my point (just imagine a 3D image
>    where the blank space is...).

****  I saw no embed tags on the page referrenced above. Indeed no images
other than links to JPS plug-ins, both brands!!! If there are stereo images
on that site elsewhere that use the embed tag, they are unavailable to those
using anything other than DC.

I can arrange any number of text and stereo images as links to JPS images
(for all viewing methods), without giving up open access to any visitor. It
would look just like this web page you pointed to and imagine any sort of
stereo image in the blank space and done completely without the embed tag.
The embed tag results in a VRex and Win9x specific access problem. That is
unacceptable, no matter any design feature you may come up with for the tag
itself. These circumstances identify the embed tag as a problem for stereo
images, not a solution.


>
>There are other, less important, benefits of EMBEDing JPS
>files.  I won't bother you with them here.  The points I
>made above were sufficient for me and many others to use
>EMBEDed JPS files on our web pages.
>

*****  You have yet to bring up even one *good* benefit of the embed tag
that isn't narrowly confined to both DC and Windows. You've completely
ignored mention of the JPS mime type. The gallery at VRex is totally
unavailable without DC and there are no optional ways to access the gallery
that have been installed even though it would be easy to do so. The VRex
gallery does NOT embody the *best of both worlds* as you suggested would be
ideal above. This is a disservice to those persons whose stereo image work
is intended to be on open display. It's *not open* and *not available*
without DC and Win9x (which is directly why I haven't contributed any images
for inclusion there). 

You have steadfastly refused to expand DC to be useable on systems other
than Windows on the excuse that Mac users don't matter. With such a narrow
view it's extremely hard to see any reason at all to use DC, since other
plug-ins do exist, other stereo image display methods do exist besides the
embed tag, and most of them are more friendly to the non-Windows crowd as
well as with Windows. 

I don't particularly care what plug-in anyone uses since both of them work
with JPS images just fine, (if they can get to the images). I do care that
your gallery and a number of  other JPS galleries are unavailable to other
plug-ins specifically and solely due to the use of the embed tag. DC works
fine for JPS images that are not embedded, but DC users have been strongly
encouraged to use embed tags with no other alternate information provided.
Many of them thought and perhaps still think that the embed tag is required
to make things work. That's simply not true. It's very misleading.

Embedding is not the only choice and it's high time the more complete story
was in circulation. If you can figure out how an embed tag can allow my
existing and installed plug-in to read and display your embedded JPS images
without trying to send me to VRex to install DC, I will reconsider my
opinion about the embed tag. Until then, I am firmly against any use of the
embed tag with stereo JPS images unless direct links are included to provide
universal access around the inflexible, irritating and limiting embed tag. 

Larry Berlin

Email: lberlin@xxxxxxxxx
http://www.sonic.net/~lberlin/
http://3dzine.simplenet.com/


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End of PHOTO-3D Digest 3216
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