Re: Grain and HIE

[Peter De Smidt <pdesmidt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Amber wrote
> 
> Peter, I've got to disagree with you on Microdol-X, basically what
> microdol-x gives you is a lot of sulfite, which doesn't really reduce
> grain size just the edges of the grain so that the grain is less
> apparent but has far less accutence.
> 

To me, 'grain less apparent' = finer grain.  Yes, Microdol-x is a
solvent developer.
Note, in "Controls in Black and White Photography" Dr. Henry found that
Microdol-x does not lower acutance.  However, his findings have not benn
substantiated by other research, although a prominent member of
rec.photo...large-format develops TMX 4x5 in Microdol-x 1:3.  His
findings support Dr. Henry's.  I've not tried the stuff myself, as I
like the grain of 35mm HIE in xtol 1:1.  When I don't want grain, I
shoot Konica 120 IR, or HSI.

> I am a real stickler for accutence, and I find developers with a lot of
> sulfite give the photo a very mushy look.  If you hate the grain that
> much and are willing to have this kind of look than go for the
> microdal x.
> 

Isn't this (you get less acutance with 'fine-grain developers') what I
said? At least, this is the accepted wisdom.

> I tend to agree with the posts that say that you can't do too much
> about the grain, however, I do think that D-76 produces some of the
> gloppiest grain, sometimes even with lumps of grain.
> 

Remember, we don't actually see individual grains.  What we see are
clumps of grains.  A developer that limits grain clumping can exhibit
fine grain without low acutance, e.g. PMK and Xtol.

> 
> The other route to go is with those pyrocatechin developers that
> people were posting about a year ago.  I don't do it myself but I
> believe they stain the negative which eliminates the look of the
> grain.
> 
> Anyone out there who uses these developers?
> Amber
> ambersexton@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *

I take it you don't mean pyrocatechin but pyrogallol, as in PMK.  There
are very few modern pyrocatechin developers around, and the ones that
are (like the formulary's td-3) are for Technical Pan.  Yes, I've used
PMK for HIE.  It gives about the same size grain in my experience as
xtol 1:1. I found that with my exposures, and Gordon Hutching's
recommended agitation, that I needed to develop for 20 minutes.  The
only advantage that I found with HIE and PMK is that PMK makes it harder
to lose detail in the highlights. If I were to still use PMK and HIE,
I'd probably double the concentration of the developer.

If you want to work with Pyrocatechin, I'd recommend the formulary's
TD-3 at less dilute concentrations than what is printed in the
directions for TP.  I'd start with double the concentrations.

If you want to mix your own, here's Muir's Pyrocatechin Compensating
Developer:

Solution A
Water 125f			500ml
Sodium metabisulfite		20g
Pyrocatechin			80g
Cold water to make 1 liter

Solution B
sodium Hydroxide (lye)	100g

Working solution: 10ml A, 5 mlB to l liter of water.  Try developing for
10-12 minutes at 70*
Note, both sodium hydroxide and Pyrocatechin are very toxic! Plus,
you'll probably need to cut your E.I. in half.

Personally, I don't think that these unusual developers are worth the
trouble.  If you want the highest negative quality, simply shoot large
format.  4x5 HSI in xtol 1:1 will blow away 35mm HIE in PMK in all of
the standard areas.  I'm not claiming, however, that one is pictorially
more satisfying.  I *like* the grain of 35mm HIE.

Peter De Smidt
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