Re: Computer 3d? Not yet for me...

[P3D Larry Berlin <lberlin@xxxxxxxxx>]

>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 06:09:27 +0000
> Dr. George A. Themelis  writes:
>
>Larry Berlin, your thoughts and ideas are well taken.  But it is time for
>reality check:  How many people today have: a) a computer b) access to the
>internet, c) access to www, d) a fast modem?  Not too many... The situation 
>is certainly changing, but we are not there yet... _today_

****************  Today's reality:  a) Thousands more than have a simple
stereo viewer.  b) Again, thousands more than own a stereo viewer .  c) Most
people who have a computer and a phone line  d) You only need a 14400 modem,
which is now old technology. Most are updating to a 28800 modem now.
Consider that today's young people have access to the internet through their
school programs, their friends homes, and soon you can even rent time at
Kinko's to access the web. The time for use of this medium is already here,
NOT *about to be here*.


>
>You make it sound as if I am the fortunate guy who has an entire collection
>of viewers and images, while the poor guy down the street only has his
>Pentium to play with...

*******************  Many more own Pentiums than red button viewers. I would
even say there are more who own Pentiums than even know a red button viewer
even exists.



>For your information, I have a few viewers but I am only using one of them
>for 99% of my viewing pleasure.  This is a Realist red button viewer which
>I bought in 1988 for $65. (BTW, I got into 3d in 1988)  The viewer works 
>today as efficiently as it did back in 1988 and, going back further, in 
>1950.  Chances are that it will work for my children and grandchildren (if 
>they don't drop it like my mother did!!!! - fortunately, it still works ;))
>
>This is non-expiring technology. ;)  

**********************  It is also an undistributed technology by comparison
to computers. Computers are here to stay, even though they are constantly
evolving. The only reason the viewers are not evolving is that they are not
a hot item in the public eye. If they were, we would continue to see more
new viewers coming out than we have seen over the last 10 years or so. Think
of the computer and the internet as the latest greatest 3D viewer, and that
most people just don't know it yet. 


>On the other hand...
>In 1984 I bought a top-of-the-line 8088 computer for $2500.  Until half
>a year ago this was my only computer.  With a 2400 modem and a freenet
>account, I did not have www access until...  Six months ago I spent
>$2500 to get a top-of-the-line Pentium and got an account with www access
>for $20/month.  So far, so good... but... A few years down the road I will 
>need to deposit another $2500 to upgrade to a "better" system. 
>(Q: What is the best computer to buy?  A: The one that costs $2500!)

*********************   Quite possibly good advice since that keeps you on
the low cost end of the computer revolution and provides reasonable
function. Today's $2500 computer can connect you to the world, at
comfortable speeds, and allow you to show your best, or your *computer best*
pictures and get lots of the audience interested in doing their own 3D
photography. Computers and cameras can and do work well together. You won't
find any other 3D capable viewing device that allows 10,000 simultaneous
viewers around the world!!! You don't even have to stay up to assist the
crowd, you can upload your images on your own schedule then go to bed while
the world stops by to take a look.

>
>Now, this is putting things into context for me...
>
>You mentioned the advantages of distributing images via www as opposed
>to sending images via the slow mail route.  Fact is, everyone has a
>mailing address (OK, ignoring homeless people who, I am sure, do not have
>a Pentium either, or, if they do, they don't have a plug to plug it ;)) 
>but not everyone has a fast computer, a fast modem and an internet 
>provider.

*********************  The technological threshold of adequate speed and
access has been passed already. In another 6 months a much larger segment of
the population will have upgraded to even better equipment. The internet is
no longer just a dream, it's a reality. *Virtual* is only in the head, where
it's been since before the cave-man age. This discussion group would not
exist on the level that it does without EMAIL, which is so much faster and
more direct than snail mail. Today we only need to actually move physical
goods when it's really necessary.


>
>Without slow (but worth waiting for!) regular mail exchanges I would
>have not had the chance to view Erlys' wonderful images with my red
>button viewer.  You can try and put her "Dreamers" in your site.  Then
>we will all gather there to view it.  I am sure you will question
>my judgement because I know that this image is just not made for
>computer 3d with today's computer technology.

*********************  Are you ready to foot the bill to obtain and provide
over a thousand red button viewers and duplicate copies of her slide, plus
the packaging and postage necessary to send the packages to all on this
list, let alone the thousands more who may be interested if they could find
out about it? I think you'd be far ahead to spend the money on a better
modem or computer first. Think of it as an extension of your camera and mind
with a reach all the way into people's homes. You aren't necessarily putting
them on the web for your own personal enjoyment. You've made clear that your
preference is with a viewer. The web is the most far reaching tool to
explain to others why you like the viewer, what good photography really is,
why one stereo image is better than another one, etc. You don't need to tell
yourself this information!


>My images have been out of the hall closet for some time now.  Sooner
>or later some of them will be in the computer.  But, as I said, these
>will not be my best images.  They will only be my best computer images.
>If you want to see my images today, all you need to do is ask and I 
>will be glad to mail them to you... ;)

*********************  Maybe for my own enjoyment I will need to start
exchanging photos with you and others. It is still a limited means of
exchange even though it is higher qulaity. I need to start doing more
photography before I will have much to contribute to a non-computer
exchange. To be fair to my own work, I would have to start getting some
computer images converted to slides too. I find that a potentially rewarding
activity but one that inherently is more expensive, more time consuming and
less effective overall (except for personal enjoyment factors). My current
photos aren't intended as stand alone stereo images, but the composited
versions of them will be, some time in the future. (It all takes time, and
it's fun ; -)

>
>Now, let me reverse the argument.  You claim I am missing a lot by not
>checking all these 3d images in the web.  And I claim that you are
>missing a lot by not sharing images via the regular mail. By only 
>sharing 3d images with others via the computer, you are limiting yourself
>to only one group of images, viewed in a very restricted way.  If you
>open a little bit and accept the slow moving mail, you will be rewarded
>with many wonderful images to be viewed with non-expiring and more 
>satisfactory to use devices (for me, at least) like a good slide viewer.


*******************   Well, let's take a better look.  I claimed you could
expand your stereo horizons by adding crossed viewing and parallel viewing
as regular experiences. This can be done with your own photo images and
since your enjoyment is NOT best on the internet, you don't have any need to
go there as a source. You could however visit sites that others have and
from their web pages identify those images you may wish to see physical
copies of. Then arrange to exchange copies by regular mail. Think of it as a
world wide library with visual reference cards.

As to my being limited to one group of images? I think NOT!!!!  The internet
provides a smorgasboard of 3D of all types and from lots of different
sources. It's the mind behind the images that accounts for what is worth
seeing, so a great variety of all types of 3D is definitely on my
appreciation list. Even if I was heavily involved in physical image
exchanges, I couldn't have access to 10% of what the Internet provides. I
have two pairs of ChromaDepth glasses, a pair of Pop-Eyes glasses, and a
home-made front-surfaced-mirror stereo viewer that is fully adjustable
between crossed or parallel viewing. Between these devices and the Internet,
plus mostly freeviewing of images (by preferrence), I'm far from 3D bored!!!

If I really want a 3D fix, I go straight to the computer and start sculpting
3D scenes, live, in real time right in front of my eyes. No shooting
pictures that I won't see for a few days or several weeks, no waiting for
the mail, no limitations of framing or window, no bothering with film chip
mounting and alignment problems, etc. Not that these aren't issues, they
simply aren't big ones. If I want to work with photography, I have a growing
collection of prints that I've scanned into computer format that I can play
with by pasting and editing into computer creations. Yes it's time consuming
but there is no substitute for the wonderful feeling of working directly in
3D. Haven't you ever wanted to reach into that great 3D shot and feel it or
rearrange it? In the computer you can literally do that. Photographs as a
medium have the limitation of being fixed. Mostly at the moment of clicking
the shutter, but additionally in the processing and printing. Even with all
the qualities of projection or red button viewers, you still can't reach
into the image and feel it without using a computer. For me, the computer
takes the experience of 3D to depths unavailable with any other format or
method. PLUS it easily connects to the images of other 3D enthusiasts so
that I can regularly see fresh viewpoints and ideas.

The ideal situation for 3D is the combination of camera images and the
flexible power of computer graphics. If you only work with photography you
are only getting 10% of what 3D imaging can be. There is lots of room for
exploration and development. There is lots of room for use of the wisdom and
style you have developed by working with photography. Photography itself is
always going to be a strong technology, though it's form may change.
Computer composited 3D is the way of the future and it's still being invented.

So, today's internet images may be limited in resolution, but they are in a
format that provides pleasure far beyond simply looking at them. I'd rather
work with what is available now, have my enjoyment of the experience and be
very much ready to make the best use of better resolution when it comes
along. I can play in a higher resolution on my computer than I can put on
the Internet, so there is room for improvement but I get plenty of enjoyment
of the on-screen 3D experience.

Larry Berlin

Email: lberlin@xxxxxxxxx
http://www.sonic.net/~lberlin/
http://3dzine.simplenet.com/


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